This is a movie that really makes you think... a LOT!! There is proof that both theories are possible...
If we just believe what we see, we might just think that Edward Daniels was insane, and that he was hallucinating the whole time, which would basically mean that the whole movie was an illusion. BUT, if we dig deeper in our thoughts, if we think about the situation for a minute, we might see things otherwise. Personally I think Teddy was sane. First of all, in the beginning of the movie, when he was on the boat heading to the island, it wouldn't make much sense that they let a crazy person go on and off the island like that.
Also, when he met the real Rachel Solando in the cave, she told him that they were going to give him brain surgeries, and in the end of the movie, the doctors were holding surgery-like tools in their hands when they took Teddy with them to the lighthouse.
Also, this lighthouse which was suspected to be the place were the lobotomizations took place was empty when Teddy went there before they tried to convince him that he was insane and they assured him that there were no such things as brain surgeries going on in there, so how come that's where they took him in the very end of the movie, with their tools in their hands?
Even the patients were apparently forced to play along with the doctors who were trying to convince Teddy that he was crazy, because when they were interviewing the patient who axed her husband, she had to make Chuck go away so that she could write a quick warning in Teddy's notebook: "RUN". This means that she was aware of what was happening and she knew that Chuck was one of the doctors.
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I've been beating my brains out trying to figure if he was crazy or not--I didn't think he was, but I couldn't come up with much proof. I didn't think of most of your points, especially the last one--thank you for writing this!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome =]
ReplyDeleteThanks for the post.....but i really think that he was insane....all the doctors and the pacients knew what to do becaus Teddy told the story before,so even the real Rachel Solando was one of the doctors who were just pretending.The pacient who axed her husband wrote "RUN" because it was also a part of Teddys story.In the end ,the doctor tells Teddy that he has healed himself 9 months ago but after a while he started again to tell the same story.One more proof that he was insane are his memories from the end of the film.He remembered what really happenned.But you are right:there are proofs thate he also was sane.Maybe I`m worng,but i think Teddy was insane!
ReplyDeleteSo how do you get a bunch of insane asylum patients to band together for a common goal?
DeleteA different view.
ReplyDeleteTeddy had a personal tragedy that his wife died in a fire. He also has hydrophobia. He might have seeked independent treatments for his dreams of WWII and depression (my own assumption).
He then wanted to investigate shutter island. The hospital knew right away. They got his profile, analysed his trauma and put up a role play, not to Andrew, but to Teddy. They installed Chuck as the mole and started drugging Teddy from the 1st cigarette on the boat.
The hospital combined role play with drug usage, made Teddy believe that he is Andrew and he himself killed his wife near the lake. Teddy started dreaming about his wife being wet after him started taking the drugs. They then used the photo of 3 dead kids and made him believe they are his own kids. The hospital pretty much "installed" the memory of Andrew to Teddy in the process.
Finally, the hospital succeeded into turning the investigator into a patient and turned him into an idiot.
Exactly!!!
DeleteGreat interpretations. A HUGE hint is in the book. At the end, when Teddy is sitting on the stairs, his partner chuck pulls up next to him, they talk and Teddy says "we gotta get off this rock". In the book Chuck says "i knew youd say something like that". Teddy asks him "any ideas?" and Chuck answers "Give me a minute". Right after that the book says "Teddy nodded. He had a minute. Maybe even a few minutes. He watched Chuck shake his head and wave down to Cawley."
ReplyDeleteThis means Chuck was ABSOLUTELY SANE! He knew they were going to operate on him and give him a lobotomy. The real question is that did he realize whatd he had done and couldnt live with it? OR is it that he was actually still a marshal and he knew he could NEVER get off the island sane, because the doctors would use his past tragedys against him?
I love this book! Lets here all the other ideas too!
Great interpretations. A HUGE hint is in the book. At the end, when Teddy is sitting on the stairs, his partner chuck pulls up next to him, they talk and Teddy says "we gotta get off this rock". In the book Chuck says "i knew youd say something like that". Teddy asks him "any ideas?" and Chuck answers "Give me a minute". Right after that the book says "Teddy nodded. He had a minute. Maybe even a few minutes. He watched Chuck shake his head and wave down to Cawley."
ReplyDeleteThis means Chuck was ABSOLUTELY SANE! He knew they were going to operate on him and give him a lobotomy. The real question is that did he realize whatd he had done and couldnt live with it? OR is it that he was actually still a marshal and he knew he could NEVER get off the island sane, because the doctors would use his past tragedys against him?
I love this book! Lets here all the other ideas too!
My reading is he is definitely sane and at the end of the book is basically being marched off, a la a concentration camp, to be killed (not just operated on) - hence the scary music as he is marched off by, guess who, the ex-Nazi Doctor. I think it becomes a very average film if he is insane. If sane it means Shutter Island is basically a sort of psycho-tropic concentration camp. Teddy knows this, but can't fight the evil, so much like the victims he saw at Dachau is forced to 'die a good man' rather than live a lie (which is what he says at the very end of the film).
ReplyDeleteMaybe I need to get the book. Im still trying to figure this movie out. I can't get the plot. And it's bugging me.
Delete....extremely good point(s) ppl. I will be going to see the film AGAIN to verify (or not) your views. The scene with the real Rachel "throws me" a little.
ReplyDeleteMY GOD!! This movie got me really thinking a great deal... At first, I really thought that Edward Daniels is real, then the revelation came that Edward Daniels is just an alter ego of a delusional man named Andrew Laedis.Well, that got me thinking that "ok.. he's insane." However, the conversation between Edward/Andrew with Chuck/Dr.Shein got me all confused!!
ReplyDeleteIs he really Edward Daniels?? or Is he Andrew Laedis??
But then again... I replayed the ending a lot of times and the line "To live like a monster, or die a good man" struck me! and here is the conclusion I've ended up with:
Andrew Laedis was already sane at that time and just pretended that he is again lapsing to his alter ego side: Edward Daniels. He wants the doctors to perform the lobotomy operation on him because he doesn't want to hurt anybody anymore and he just couldn't live with the memories.
Teddy was insane. The guards aren't standing around scowling at Teddy, cocking their guns because of a little barefoot woman with no possible escape. Like the psychiatrist said, it was an elaborate role-play. Another thing, "Chuck has so much trouble getting his gun off his belt because he's never carried one. He's a doctor. Also, in the interviews with patients, Teddy gets a little testy with the first one, and they bring out a syringe with the lady patient. Ready for this? Its not for her! ITS FOR TEDDY. Their refusal to cooperate with his investigation, because they are just humoring him with this little game to bring him back to reality. it's THE ULTIMATE MIND-FUCK!!!
ReplyDeleteTrue, Chuck is actually working with the island the entire time. He is Teddy's new partner at the beginning of the film. My conjecture is that he's been placed there by the island to try to aid in the illusion that Teddy is insane. "Is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man." He knows he will not get off of the island. Is it better for him to surrender his mind to the island or to die as Teddy. Then again, who is 67? Andrew?
ReplyDeletethis movie blew my mind
ReplyDeleteYou say:
ReplyDelete"when they were interviewing the patient who axed her husband, she had to make Chuck go away so that she could write a quick warning in Teddy's notebook: "RUN". This means that she was aware of what was happening and she knew that Chuck was one of the doctors."
Its completely illogical. Look, if that woman who wrote RUN knew that Chuck was one of the doctors, that means Chuck was not teddy's partner. And if he was not teddy's partner that means teddy was insane and not sane as you advocate here...
I believe that Chuck was indeed a doctor, but Teddy was sane. They knew Teddy was on to the conspiracy about Shutter Island, so they made Chuck--the doctor, become his partner for this assignment.
DeleteThat's what I though as well but the only thing that busts the whole theory is Teddy's daughter - Rachel. He dreamed of her and then the doctors showed him the picture of a dead girl, the one he had dreamed of.
ReplyDeleteI think there's a second meaning to Teddy's line: "to live as a monster, or dies as a good man" - that Teddy/Andrew is indeed insane and realised the truth at the end. So he became sane, but he chose the lobotomy by making Chuck and co. think he's resetting again, because he couldn't live with the guilt of killing his wife and failing to save his children.
ReplyDeleteSo he'd rather die in the fantasy of being a US Marshal investigating the island (good man), than live out his life as a mental patient and being constantly haunted by his past deeds (monster).
Hey what's with deleting my post?? What the heck did I say wrong?
ReplyDeleteTeddy could still be sane even if chuck wasn't a marshall, Chuck still acted as if he was his partner even if he was a doctor, remember if Teddy didn't know this man from before and just met him on the ferry over to the Island he could be a doctor or a marshall, he doesn't have to be insane because Chuck was real
ReplyDeleteThe way i see it is; we as the fans were convinced my the doctors ourselves, as was teddy. It seems like those kids and wife killing story was suggested to him threw drugs and sleep(which along with ECT accomplished this stuff in the same era the movie takes place, see MKultra/Church Report)
ReplyDeleteThey (all docs,and staff ect that were doc's...especialy that guard that had that drive with him)know how the human mind works and if you say something enough times to him he will eventualy start to get confussed himself and thinks it's true.
ofcours within the sceen where he's talking to the staff they look like they're sitting in group(its a circle) and than he (german doc) says something like "Salondo doesn't belive she's here ,she thinks shes a house wife at home" and than Teddy asks "how is that possible"...so within 15 mins I figuered he was a pattient.
ofcourse it can be inturpreted both ways, it's left that way I belive, but I belive the audience and Teddy were both convinced he was insane and sugested false memories threw other story fed to him thank link up with what the convinced him about wife and kids which mirrored WW2(3 kids, but he didn't seem to mind the other to as much as the mother and daugter he recalls from the death/Work Camp(the girl in the death camp is the same girl who plays his daugter,grace from nurse jacky) and his wife represents the guards he shot out of anger and guilt.
so bassicly we fell for the doctors BS too (anyone who belives him or isn't sure) I think teddy is sane and was being druged and having mk-ultra style sugestions put into his head when he slept or any other time a vivid wierd sceen took place rather it was a dream or hallucination(seeing as how they go to the lighthouse instead of all the other places they could have gone.)
I think the doctors instilled the illusion that Teddy's wife had killed his children through the woman in the beginning who they said escaped. Remember when she pretended to be his wife and that she sent the children off to to school. Along with the opium they got him to believe that his wife killed his children. But she was actually a nurse not a patient . Also remember when he dreams about hIs wife and all around him there is fire and ash? That's because his wife actually was killed in a fire and he is reflecting on us. The little girl said why didn't you save me . This is because she was a Jew at a concentration camp. Not his daughter. If he had 3 children then why didn't he dream about all of them till the end? He only dreamed about the little girl during most of the movie indicating that he didn't have any children. He only saw one of the kids who was just a victim of the holocaust . The women in the cave was a perfectly sane doctor who didn't agree wIth the lobotomy ideas. She told him they were trying to make him crazy . There isn't a single indication that she was a crazy patient at the island . Therefore she really was a doctor who was on to the ex nazi , as is teddy an agent who was on to them.
DeleteI think this one actually makes the most sense, dan mohr :)
Deleteteddy was sane! the one thing that makes me believe this is there is a scene where teddy enters a room asking where his partner (chuck) is, and the warden tries to convince him that he has no partner, that he showed up alone. why would he try to convince him of thatif he knew the situation of role playing? he was trying to subliminally make him think he was crazy!
ReplyDeleteif you think he was sane you are wrong. The movie, like the book is not ambiguous.
ReplyDeleteThe entire state of confusion after the end is meant to impart on the viewer how confusing/chaotic it is for Teddy to realize that his reality is skewed.
-the people he interviews are people ACTING insane ( picking up a glass to drink). this is part of the role play where he thinks he is actually interviewing insane people
when we goes into "rachels" room there are 2 pairs of MENS shoes, not womans. It is his room
he knows exactly where the note is- he hid it to feed his fantasy
there are way too many other examples to list, but some that are overlooked:
the fact that the names were all anagrams. this is concrete, and next to impossible if he were sane. HE MADE them up, there is no way the people involved with his "teddy" story happened to have these names
the way chuck calls him teddy and boss at the end. CHUCK IS DOING THE SAME Thing as "teddy" was when he was talking to the supposed patients. He is conforming to the rigid fantasy to have a chance at communicating..
the movie is great, well crafted but it is remarkably simple. Watch it again if you think he was sane and with any semblence of intelligence you will find yourself corrected
I concur
Deletealso in the movie there was a picture of Hitler in the background, if that means anything.
ReplyDeleteWell, there's no way he could have dreamed the SAME exact girl in the picture the doctor showed him if he was sane. As I recall, they showed that same little girl in the beginning of the movie when "Teddy" was talking to Chuck about all the bodies he'd seen during the war. She was in a pile of bodies, holding on to someone, practically the same way he had seen her holding onto Rachel in one of his dreams. He told Chuck about this way before the doctor explained how Rachel drowned her children.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, they couldn't have "planted" that little girl in his mind. The scene in the beginning of the movie shows signs that the little girl had some sort of significance in Andrew's/Teddy's life. He was thinking about her even before the role play began. And even if he WAS sane, and those children weren't his own, there are still too many references to that little girl to say that she didn't exist.
If she wasn't his daughter, she had to be SOMETHING to him. And because she existed and was so significant, there is no way "Teddy" was sane, because "sane" Teddy didn't remember her.
So when george told him he was a rat in a maze he wasn't joking? hmmmmm this movie really made me think! i see both facts that he was sane and insane...
ReplyDeleteSane: even after all the drugging they did to him he still believed he was teddy.
insane: at the end Dr cawley says that teddys mind is like a tape playing over and over again. So in the beginning he thought he was teddy and at when he woke up near the end he realized he was Andrew...but at the very end his mind restarted and he thought he was teddy again
I think he was insane!
I didn't understand why at the end if he was insane, why the the doctor called him teddy when he walked away if that wasn"t his real name. Does this mean he really was teddy?
ReplyDeleteI think there are three levels of depth that someone could perceive this movie.
ReplyDeleteLevel 1: Teddy/Andrew was a patient and by the end of the movie he was never cured. I think it goes deeper than that.
Level 2: Teddy/Andrew was a patient and the doctors were role playing in order to help him realize the truth about who he is. By the end of the movie the doctors have made progress. Teddy goes back to his “insane” state when he was talking to chuck on the steps. He makes a comment about living as a monster or dying a good man to show that he was just pretending to be insane again so he could get his lobotomy. I think it goes even deeper than that.
Level 3: Teddy was a marshal and the doctors were trying to convince him he was crazy. Why? Because they really are doing experiments on patients and Teddy found out. In order to keep him from going back to the mainland and telling other officials they tried to convince him that he was this entirely different person. Why would they keep drugging him through pills (aspirin) and cigarettes if their main goal was to show Teddy he was a patient at the end of their role play game? The pills and cigarettes were given to him to give him delusional dreams and confuse him. I think Teddy was actually sent to the island to begin with as a Marshal to search for the female doctor that was missing. This is something that happened prior to when the movie actually begins. So the doctor in the cave is real and everything she told him is real. She found out about the experiments the doctors were conducting on the patients and she didn’t want any part of it so she ran. Since it’s an island she can’t get off and has no other choice but to hide moving to a different place every night just like she told Teddy in the cave. The whole time Teddy has been trapped on the island, which is way before the movie even starts, the doctors are giving him pills and forcing a story (that he killed his wife and in a mental patient) into Teddy’s head so he’ll actually start believing it’s real. I don’t think he actually has a wife. The interview in the cafeteria where the woman writes “RUN” on his notepad, is because she knows the doctors are trying to convince him that he’s crazy and she’s warning him to get out of there. And she knows that his partner, Chuck, is actually another doctor so she asks him get her water while she writes it.
When they first arrive (Teddy & Chuck), whose the old looking woman who places a finger up against her lip?
ReplyDeleteWhat I'd also question is whether Scorsese's believes Teddy was sane, cause in the film version during the q&a sessions with the other patients Bridget asks for a glass of water Chuck fetches it for her returns she takes a sip and her hands are empty,wtf? watch it again...
I have seen the movie twice, and must admit that there is so much evidence leaning on the side of insane. In fact, pretty much the whole movie tries to convince the viewer and teddy that teddy is indeed andrew. I just view this movie as far to complex and well crafted of a movie to be so simple as to just follow the plot to get to the meaning.
ReplyDeleteUpon looking deeper than the most obvious clues leading us to believe he is insane, i came up with this list of clues to help my case that he is SANE.
1. At the end of the movie, Chuck calls him "Teddy" very quickly as Teddy stood up. This is when the guards and the other doctor (bald guy) was around. Why wouldn't he continue with his goal of the movie and continue to push forward with "Andrew"?
2. The last quote of the movie can be interpreted to me as: "is it better to surrender my mind to the island (and become a ghost like every other patient) or die as Teddy, knowing who I REALLY am?
3. The anagram "Rachel Solondo" was GIVEN to Teddy in the beginning of the movie. Excuse me if I am wrong, but all Teddy knew coming into the island was that some patient ran away and they needed his help
4. At the end, why was Teddy being walked to the lighthouse with tools in the other men's hands if nothing was going on there?
5. The (bald guy) tries to convince Teddy that he came to the island alone. This came abruptly after Teddy tries to go to the lighthouse AFTER he speaks to George (i believe) who tells him Chuck is against him. This is when Chuck knew he had to put a stop to Teddy because they knew he knew what was really going on.
6. As touched on in the previous point, Chuck DOES NOT want Teddy to go to the lighthouse.
7. The story was pushed onto Teddy. He was given all sorts of drugs and was practically being told exactly what the story was repeatedly.
8. The fact that he was even having hallucinations. Why? Because of the drugs. Also, how did the (bald guy) know that Teddy was having these hallucinations?
9. How did 24 months go by? The movie seemed to not take place over 24 months by any means.
10. The fact that Teddy still believed he was "Teddy" at the conclusion of the movie, and was able to concoct the statement he did.
11. When he was being questioned by the (bald guy) and the doctor at the end of the movie in the bed, it seemed like Teddy was doing a great job of vomiting exactly what they wanted him to say so he can survive.
This may be farfetch'd but the piece of the movie that TRULY makes me believe that Teddy is sane is CHUCK. I think that CHUCK is actually really his partner. Chuck is the ultimate part of the (bald guy's) plot to make Teddy seem insane. He knew that Teddy trusted Chuck so much and that if he could turn Chuck against Teddy, it would have to make him seem insane and begin to doubt his story. So, the part that allows me to believe Chuck was put under their spell is at the rocks when Teddy leaves him, then cannot find him for some period of time. Then when asking the (bald guy) where he is, he said he never came with a partner. This is when he turned Chuck into Dr. Sheehan. This was done by the use of the drugs, cigarettes, whatever else they used. Chuck, however, had the (bald guy) fooled. He, along with Chuck were executing an even bigger plot over the (bald guy). They planned to go along with however they wanted them to act just to stay alive. So, chuck acted like he was actually Dr. Sheehan and Teddy acted as Andrew. This is all revealed in the final scene when Teddy and Chuck were saying they are smarter than the rest of the people on the island, and they need to make their next move. Then Chuck shouts the name of his partner. PLEASE respond to this comment it would be greatly appreciated.
I agree. But why at the end then did "chuck" shak his head to the doctor? I believe that chuck was in on it, and told the doctor with his shake of the head (or nod or whatever it was lol) That Teddy in fact did not actually fall for it, he was just pretending. Or maybe Teddy is actually crazy and at the end he relapsed. who knows? Lol
DeleteWOW, NOW YOU HAVE ME WONDERING. Great analysis, my daughter and I will post tomorrow after we discuss this again.
ReplyDeletewow. i see where the above comments are all coming from..
ReplyDeletebut i think you could take this movie either way. because both the sane and insane factor both make sense.
with the whole chuck/doctor senario i believe that chuck might have actaully been cloned in the lobotomy and therefore he is not himself.
although i have only watched this movie once, i am very curious about it.
personally i believe he was insane.
i think that you can interperate this movie either way.
i'll have to read the book and then maybe i will be able to understand it fully.
and if he was actaully insane we watched everything through eddy/andrews head. which to me wouldn't be as interesting as the sane way.
Based on the movie as opposed to the book which I have not yet read, edward daniels was sane. Here's my interpretation, he was brought to shutter island under false pretenses and his partner was against him from the beginning. He was actually doctor sheehan, helping the scientists and doctors at shutter island to execute the experiments they were involved in. Everything is set up for daniels to believe he is crazy. It is possible the anagrams were coincidences used to persuade a drugged edward daniels. Brain surgeries were taking place and daniels could not be allowed to tell the world. The little girl was simply part of the repressed memory from his experience at the liberation of dachau.
ReplyDeleteHoles:
1. Why did he have hydrophobia?
2. Were the anagrams coincidences?
3. How could Dr. Rachel Salando actually be real? How could she go undetected on the island?
Was he sane or not..?! I think he was..
I have to completely agree with the comment of the guy who was talking about the 3 levels and also the guy who made 11 points. I was thinking exactly those myself. Another proof is that there are actually 2 lighthouses. When the movie starts in the boat you can see 2 light houses on both ends. And also if you compare the end of the movie's light house and the one he goes to earlier. They are different. The point of this mind control project was that it was to convince the govt. that under coercion, use of psychotropic drugs and role playing, at totally sane & intelligent person could be convinced of there insanity and made to admit so.
ReplyDeleteTeddy realizes this devious purpose and under the circumstances he chooses to "fail" the program so that such experiments will have been proved to be a failure. If instead he had accepted his "insanity" then the mind control pilot program would have succeeded, resulting in even more "dissidents/enemies of the state", to be similarly branded insane. You have to remember that the movie specifically chooses a time period when MCKULTRA and other mind control experiments were being actively performed and McCarthyism was in its full fire.
This is a really good dicussion.
ReplyDeleteI'm still torn between Teddy being sane/insane. I'm leaning towards insane because trying to convince him he's insane required far more work/money for drugs/risk than just killing him.
Please dont say that killing him would 'attract to much suspicion' as ive seen in other threads as it would be far easier to call the Marshalls and say something like...
"Teddy was searching for the missing inmate near the cliffs edge where he slipped on the wet rocks and fell to his death"
... than to call and say something like...
"Well while your Marshall was here he had a psychotic break, you know, cause his wife died. So we just thought we'd lobotomise him immediatly rather than perfrom a lengthy diagnosis like with other patients. He didn't talk to any of you about the island right? good"
However it also seems a lot of trouble to try and convince one patient out of 67 thats he is insane just to prevent surgery. Also would be very high risk to let 'the most dangerous inmate' have free run of the island, and for a brief time at the opening of the film provide him with a gun.
Just some thoughts.
Of course if he is insane then nothing in the movie before the reveal in the lighthouse has to make sense because its through the eyes of an insane man. e.g. everyone is obsessed with the woman who writes RUN on the notepad, no one seems to have mentioned this is because she knows if he keeps this up he will be lobotomised? maybe?
I'm still confussed.
argg! I LOVE this film.
Sane!!! period!!! Drugs did the dirty work!!! for all of u wondering is he sane or insane!!! lot of detail explain that he is sane!!! lot of u saying he is insane for this and that!!! but its all about drugs!!
ReplyDeleteI have read arguments for and against and there are two main contradictions for me regarding the little girl.
ReplyDeleteSANE
1. The photo - how could they have a photo of the girl in his memory? This must point to him being Andrew.
INSANE
2. The other children - we never saw his sons in the concentration camp flashback. Also, in the river scene, he only shows emotion towards his daughter. This points to the story about the drowned children being part of the island and to him being Teddy.
3. Also, the anagram. If he is sane, Rachel can be explained because they fed that name to him on the island, but he came up with the name Andrew/Teddy on his own. This points to him actually being Andrew.
I believe Teddy was insane, actually I figured it out 5 min into the movie. Movies always give clues. When Teddy and Chuck meet with the doctor and he informs them that the missing woman had delusions of living at her real home with her kids, and that she has created a an alternate reality within which to cope with her problems, you can see where this applies to the main character Teddy.
ReplyDeleteThis was the same kind of statement used in the sixth sense when the kid tells Bruce Willis that ghost don't realize their dead. Later Bruce Willis finds out he is dead.
Also when he meets with the woman that writes run on a piece of paper if you notice after she takes a sip of water and sets the glass down the glass is empty. It's not even wet. There never was any water in glass. Not to mention Teddy realizes she seems quite sane. The lady has to quickly make a story up to cover her lack of acting. The idea of writing run is just another ploy in helping him live out the role.
When Teddy is questioning the staff, the doctor is sitting behind a desk taking notes, he is not one of the staff being questioned.
Then there was the meeting with the lady who killed her kids after she was found. She was delibertly used as a way in which to reconnect him with his past experiences. If you notice he started to exhibit unnecessary emotion that did not fit with the circumstances, almost like his mind was trying to remember something he had forgotten, her purpose was to evoke emotion.
As for Chuck, Chuch throughout the entire movie was always working against Teddy, he allowed Teddy to do things but he was always suggesting alternatives.
The reason that the one doctor couldn't be reached during the storm was because he was Chuck. And any information about the doctor was quicky covered up and let go immediately.
The reason why Teddy wasn't allowed to see the files on the patients was because they would include altercationsw with, sessions with, interactions with Teddy. And his power as a supposed active Marshall would have given him access to such files without hinderance, but since he wasn't an active Marshall access was denied because such access to those files would have ruined the role play game the doctors had set up.
I could go on and on and on but one last point I will make to his insanity is the state of the Island itself. When Teddy first arrived the inner court to the facility was imaculately manicured. The storm was a delusion. Because in the end just after the rage of the storm when Teddy is sitting on the steps the court is immaculate as if nothing ever happened, no broken tree limbs, no debris, not messed up flower beds, everything is perfect.
Teddy was insane, but the one part I am not sure of is whether or not in the end if he was insane, and I think this is where people question the whole of the movie. We shouldn't question if he was insane during the movie but rather at the end of the movie. I think he would have to be sane at the end of the movie to make the statement about living as a monster.
edward daniels is crazy =[ he is andrew and it is hard to accept for both him and, in some cases, the viewer
ReplyDeleteAnna U. Sargent
ReplyDeleteThe proof that he is insane is the flash back at the end. The doctors had a picture of the girl he had been having delusions of (Rachel, his daughter). Teddy realizes he is insane too when they have a picture of a girl he had been having delusions of.
One interesting thing to note is that every time Teddy slept on the island (four total) he had weird dreams, except one time. 3 times he slept in the facilities and had crazy hallucinations. That's when he was getting worked on. In the cave, far away from the hospital's influence, nothing!
ReplyDeleteNinth, Dr. Cawley told him, near the end, that he had no partner and that he came alone in order to try and get him to realize the truth, unfortunately the role-play didn't work out as quickly as he had hoped. When he said that he got on the island alone, he meant at the very beginning, two years earlier. Also, you'll note that the orderly was telling the man who ripped the woman's face off to "stop looking at him" and Bridget Kearns was saying "I don't remember what I'm supposed to remember," proving, once again, that they were onto it and evidently the best candidates to be interviewed at the beginning as the others might not be as good at lying. This also proves that they are, in fact, patients and that they are not mere actors playing a part.
ReplyDeleteTenth, Dr. Sheehan called Laeddis "Teddy" at the end only after he called him "Chuck," he did not want to enrage him by calling him Andrew, even though Laeddis may have been lying about regressing. That is why he wasn't trying to "continue with his" goal.
Eleventh, They weren't actually drugging him through "Aspirin" (which probably was, actually, Aspirin) and cigarettes. His dreams were coming from the fact that he wasn't receiving any antipsychotic drugs. Hence the "withdrawl" symptoms and the increased number of hallucinations as the film went on.
Twelfth, the woman who places her finger to her lips is referencing the fact that she's in on it and can't say anything while, at the same time, sort of laughing at him and his situation, I don't know her diagnosis and I won't pretend I do.
Thirteenth, the anagram of Rachel Solando may have been given to him, but it clearly states that he created it, approximately two years prior. This point is hard to argue but it can't really be a coincidence that Andrew Laeddis and Edward Daniels be a coincidence, the odds are far too low.
Fourteenth, "Chuck" initially disappears because he suspected that George Noyce must have told him something and had to go debrief Dr. Cawley on the situation. "Chuck" also doesn't want him to go to the lighthouse because he's continuing in his role-playing.
Fifteenth, the movie only took place over a couple of days, they never told him that the entire time he had been playing a game, only the few days prior. The two years, or 24 months, happened before the movie's timeline and isn't in Laeddis's accessible memory.
Sixteenth, he was "vomiting exactly what they wanted him to say" because he realized, through his dream/memory, the truth about himself.
Seventeenth, there is only one lighthouse, I don't know where you saw the other one at the beginning or at any part of the movie. Also, whence compared, the one he went to and found Dr. Cawley and the one at the very end are the exact same lighthouse.
Eighteenth, Laeddis shows emotion to all three of his children but was possibly closer to his youngest:the little girl, Rachel. This could be why he sees only her at the concentration camp in his dream, it could also be that he saw a little girl at Dachau that looked a whole lot like his daughter, but this is only speculation.
Nineteenth, and finally, the viewer not being shown any dream in his final sleep in the cave could be due to time constraints or due to repetition; his dreams could possible revolve around the same things all the time and the first ones were only to show for the fact that the same delusions could be applied in any situation.
I hope these points can help show you that Andrew Laeddis (alias Edward "Teddy" Daniels) is actually a paranoid type schizophrenic.
Very insightful posts here, bt I was wondering, if Teddy was sane, why would he continue to 'play along' as bein Teddy at the end when he is sitting on the steps? Edward Daniels doesn't seem like the type to just pussy out and give up like that....
ReplyDeleteAnonymous...You prick (read your last comment). Teddy is sane. This is the most comprehensive explanation I have seen so far, and should clear up any thoughts to the contrary. This is also a big reason why this movie is so amazing. In the book, Andrew Laeddis (AKA Teddy) is insane...In te movie...Teddy = sane. It is an adaptation. I don't know how some people did not think this was a good movie. Scorsese is amazing. Here is the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/62/bbv4life/shutter-island-teddy-sane-proof-726990/
Cut and paste this into your web browser and READ
Hey , I've a true evidence that LEO was a sane man 100 % percent ......look all at the scene at the begging when they were entering to the island ,they asked them to give their guns before getting in (.....LEO graped off the gun VERY EASY .........but but but CHUCK tried a lot of one time to do so but it was SO SO HARD that because he was a DOCTOR worked for the shutter island )............and if it was a place for treating insane people so why the novel or the movie named ( SHUTTER ISLAND )
ReplyDeleteHe was insane. Through their work they made him sane again. He had repressed his memories of his wife killing his kids and him killing his wife because he felt as if all of it was his fault for not getting her help. It was irrational but trauma does that to people.
ReplyDeleteHe had Dissociative Identity Disorder. He created a new personality and a alternate past for which someone else was to blame for his family dying.
When they confronted him with everything it was like he sobered up he was sane again.
At the end he felt it was better to get lobotomized and live out his life numb to the truth stuck in the fantasy of being the good guy
than live the sane life always remembering the pain the murder of his wife and the people he had hurt since then being a Monster in a mental institution....sheesh!
In my opinion Teddy Daniels was insane and the movie show us what he was thinking, seeing in his point of view or what reality in his mind projecting. And the Doctors and staff volunteer to play along with the experiment hoping that will cure him in the end.
ReplyDeleteIn the last part of the movie Teddy Daniels outside on the hospital steps and Chuck Aule aproach him.
Chuck Aule was still playing his part/role as Teddy Daniels partner, to find out if Teddy Daniels had been cure or had he reset his role as the detective, in short if he revert to his insanity believing he is a detective named Teddy Daniels..
Chuck Aule sits next to him.
Teddy Daniels: "I don't know, Chuck. You think
they're onto us?"
Chuck Aule: "Nah. We're too smart for that."
Chuck Aule signals to Dr. Cawley and the guards that he believes the treatment was unsuccessful and take him to be lobotomize, in Dr. Cawley expression he looks sad and disapointed that the experiment didn't work, you know he was hoping it would cure Teddy Daniels..
Then Teddy Daniels said to Chuck Aule:
“Is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man?”
As Teddy Daniels get up Chuck Aule was confuse thinking that what did Teddy Daniels ment,
that Teddy Daniels would want to live as a good man rather than living a monster knowing he killed his wife..
Thats what Teddy Daniels chose, to be lobotomize cause he can't handle that he did killed his wife.
As Teddy Daniels walk toward the men in white and the officers he momentarily look at Dr. Cawley, the way I look at it in that instant alot was beeing say, he was acknowledging what he did for him and thankfull that Dr. Cawley really want to cure him and took necessary step to do it...
Yes Teddy Daniels was not insane in the end of the movie unnfortunately he chose to be lobotomize...
That is my interpretation of this movie...
1. If he is insane from the beggining then the movie has no point and we were lied to the whole time. Theres no point in that.
ReplyDeleteDefinetly sane!
Brillant discussion (with the exception of the Anon post on January 15, 2011 5:28 PM where you felt the need to call someone a prick - shame).
ReplyDeleteI am continually struck by the similarity of the plot to that of K-Pax, where Kevin Spacey plays a man in a mental hospital who has also developed Dissociative Identity Disorder combined with a complext psychotic delusional make up for just the same the reasons as Teddy/Andrew. The denoument at the end of K-Pax presents the Kevin Spacey character with the same choice as Teddy, i.e. whether to use what is left of his poor broken self to will himself to continue his delusion. Whaddy'a think people?
(I still can't decide whether Teddy is sane (though seriously disturbed) Teddy, or bonkers Andrew. (why the huge virulent scar across Andrew's face anyone?).
The hideous scar represents the terrible inner demons which he has repressed.
DeleteWhy would the movie be made for a insane killer in a mental institution? NO POINT
ReplyDeleteWhy would we watch 2 hours of a movie that presents fantasies from an insane killer? NO POINT
So he is sane.
all i know now beside the fact that he might me sane or insane is that i have a huge headache from watching this.it's so stimulating.it makes you think all the way through the movie!
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't even worry about whether he is sane or insane, the director of shutter island did an amazing job at making sure that people would think about whether Teddy was sane or insane. WE CANNOT CONCLUDE ANYTHING.
ReplyDeletebut in my opinion, I think Teddy was sane because if he was insane, people would have just wasted there time watching the previous 110 minutes of the movie.
Teddy wasn't sane or insane because Teddy wasn't real. Andrew Laeddis was a psychiatric patient with an incredible mind and a completely alternative reality that he lived in as Teddy Daniels. Unfortunately his final choice was lucid and sane and ultimately tragic, knowing he could no longer live as Andrew knowing the demise of the only thing he ever loved...his family and knowing he could no longer live as Teddy probably exhausted from a delusion that was a living nightmare. Which would be worse, to live as a monster or to die as a good man? Only Andrew and Teddy could know.
ReplyDeleteHe was sane! On the fairy ride to the island he couldnt find his cigarettes which his "partner" then gave him one that i believed to be laced with whatever drugs they used to make him believe that he wasnt sane also at the end after he says the whole live like a monster or die a good man, as he gets up to walk away "dr sheehan" calls him teddy as if some type of guilt pierced through him now why would he call him teddy if he just got done convincing him and calling him andrew?? I am convinced that he was sane and those memories and hallucinations were implanted in his mind.
ReplyDeleteIt's a well thought out response and I am still very unsure about whether Teddy is sane or insane, the way the movie is set out in a certain paradoxical manner, making us consciously believe that he is sane, but then showing proof against it.
ReplyDeleteIt is easy to believe that he is sane because the whole story is around trying to find proof to shut the island down, but this might all just be a way of escaping his reality of being insane?
The part of the film where the patient writes on his notepad telling him to 'RUN' tells us that he is sane, although it might just be a type of metaphor in a hallucination, portraying his denial of actually being insane.
Again at the start of the film when they are coming on the ferry, the point can be argued that this is when they start making him hallucinate, but even if they were making him have hallucinations, how could they control what he hallucinated about?
It is a very good discussion that could be argued for hours, but I guess that is the manner of the film, to make us think more about the ending and use our imaginations to decide ourselves...
its very complicated to figure it out. because there are many points for and against it. but I will try to figure it out from a different perspective.
ReplyDeleteIf Andrew/Teddy was insane than the movie was just a role play, he is insane and understands it and over.
If he is sane in the other hand it makes it more a psychological thriller like they say.
I personally think he was sane, not sure about his friend. but when he slept in the cave no dreams or anything.
The producers or writers will not tell how it is in order to benefit more. so it is up to everyone to decide for their own if he is sane or insane.
by: xboxkosova@hotmail.com
edward has schizophrenia.
ReplyDeleteIf you read the book, you'd know Teddy (or should I say Andrew) was infact insane. The movies closely follows the book, but some very important details were missing. You're welcome!
ReplyDeleteI have read so many plots, I'm going cross eyed lol. And I NEVER once read anything from anyone on here that mentioned Wasn't it a lil strange that just "all of a sudden" Rachel just 'turns' up randomly ???? She had zero marks on her (meaning she never escaped anywhere barefoot) points to me he's insane. Also the fact he was the one that mentioned first about him tryin to find laaedis... And my theory on the "cave Rachel" is she was just a figment of his imagination because he was with drawling and since he WAS insane, his mind making her seem real gave him an excuse to believe in his 'not being insane'. He was definatly Insane. Make a chart & weigh it out! Insane !
ReplyDeleteI think he is insane. The trauma he experienced after killing his wife cause him to create an alternate reality where he was a hero instead of a murder. At the end of the movie he asks 'Chuck' if it's better to die a hero or live a monster. This is a sign that he didn't in fact regress into his alternate reality but simply didn't want to live with the knowledge that he killed his beloved wife and his wife murdered his three children. So, knowing that they would have to operate on his brain, he leaves 'Chuck' as the only person who knows that he really did remember, but there was no point for him to try to get past the crime he committed because he simply couldn't forgive himself.
ReplyDeleteI think that was the whole point of the movie. To make the viewer feel like Andrew. Do we know the truth or not? Are we wrong to question ambiguities like the lighthouse's true purpose? Or she we just accept what the doctors say unquestionably?
ReplyDeleteTeddy was insane and I tell you why from my detailed observation
ReplyDelete1.In ward C if you pay attention to what George Noyce was saying to him, he told him that "This is all one big game and you just a rat in a maze..."
Then Teddy became very defensive saying he was talking bullshit and he dismissed it. When George Noyce noticed how he was not willing to hear that, he said to Teddy "Well then they have already won... Meaning that if Teddy was to stupidly believe he was investigating as a Warden he will be a fool to do so..."
Now if you recall the scene where on the rainy day where Ted was talking to Chuck, he said that George Noyce told him that the Institution does brain work etc on patients where he was supposedly investigating. Then Chuck says to him why would you believe someone who is mad. Then Teddy goes onto say that "When mad people speak they sometimes let go the real side of things when they think no one will listen them...." However as we can see later on in the scene in Ward C, Ted had no interest in listening to what he had to say then when he was being called Andrew Laeddis and saying about he is in a maze...
2.If you also recall when Ted and Chuck just got onto Shutter Island and were in the 4WD at back driving in, Ted mutters "Electrified perimeter... and Chuck heard him and Ted replies "I've seen something like it before.
Now that right there! Says or hints that he was already in the mad house on his initial visit 2years ago and had seen them on his 1st day in...
Nope, he'd seen an electrified perimeter before at a concentration camp. And he knew exactly what went on behind those walls. So that was his first clue he was in over his head.
Delete